Bloody Gulch Info...

DDayFan1
Registered User
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 00:04

08 Mar 2009, 21:21 #1

I just returned from finding Bloody Gulch (which I might add was NOT easy to find!) with a good buddy of mine and I have a quick question to anyone who has
been there or has some insights. There appears to be a small road (with significant hedgerows on either side) that runs right down the middle between the
506th positions (on the right hand side) and the Germans who were attacking down a small hill (on the left hand side). Of course, this was made famous in
Episode 3 "Carentan" of Band of Brothers. The road in question goes all the way past Bloody Gulch to a tunnel under the railway line (which formed
the right flank of the 101st) which appeared to be pretty old.




Can anyone help with the geography here? The road that bisects the battle would have made an excellent defensive position but our research indicates that the
101st line was positioned well back of the road. Was the road not there in '44 or is that where the our main line of defense was located and we simply
have the geography wrong?




Thanks to anyone who can help me out here...
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Daniele C
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Joined: 04 Jul 2008, 16:03

08 Mar 2009, 22:21 #2

ImageDo you mean the road that ends here...?
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The new Sparky
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Joined: 30 Nov 2007, 12:38

08 Mar 2009, 22:33 #3

When you visited this location were there a bunch of Gypsy's camping around the area of the Railroad overpass?
Definition of a Veteran:


A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to
and including my life."


That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.


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Ryan Baker
Registered User
Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 23:23

08 Mar 2009, 22:56 #4

I visited this spot with Mark in 2006 and again on my own in 2008. There weren't any gypsies but there was a fair amount of trash under the bridge and to
the right. The webmaster knows this area well and could answer your questions regarding the lay of the land in 1944 compared to today.
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reccewoody
Registered User
Joined: 15 Dec 2007, 15:29

09 Mar 2009, 07:41 #5

Hi all,




I have been researching Bloody Gulch this winter, and based on Lt Speirs 1947 report I don't think the 2/506th positions were near to this location at all
and were in fact much closer to Carentan. I am putting all my findings together in anticipation of showing my work to Mark Bando when he is here in May. I
used to think the Gulch was exactly where the photo above shows, but as I say my recent studies are pointing elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, there was
plenty of fighting in the area shown, the tanks of 2nd Armored pushed through here as did elements of 101st later on June 13th/14th. But the area of the
initial attack and the area depicted in the TV series I THINK is further back. But I won't be publishing any maps, photos etc until I have met with Mark.




Paul
Mr. Chard Sir! Patrol has come back, Zulus have gone, all of 'em. It's a miracle! If it's a miracle Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer
Henry, point 45 caliber miracle. And a bayonet Sir! With some guts behind it! Zulu - 1963
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Dale Blum
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Joined: 12 Mar 2008, 22:22

13 Jun 2009, 21:41 #6

Paul,




How is your research going and anything to share?
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Bogeyz
Registered User
Joined: 05 Dec 2007, 23:06

13 Jun 2009, 23:47 #7

DDay: do you have the book on 3/506 by Ian Garder ?


It has some new info on that battle and the location.
'Travelling on this road too long, trying to find my way back home, but the old me is dead and gone...'
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KlondikeFox
Registered User
Joined: 03 Mar 2008, 14:33

14 Jun 2009, 03:38 #8

Bogey: do not confuse Bloody Gulch (1st and 2nd Bns 506th) with Bloody Gully


(3/506th).



These are two different places and that was one of the most significant findings of


Mr Gardner's research. His book does give a lot of info on the 3rd BN 506th area,


known as Bloody Gully, which lay south of the road which runs east-west below Donville.


Bloody Gulch
was north of that road and the right boundary of it was the railroad line.


The right boundary of Bloody Gully was the road mentioned above.


Thanks to Ian's research, we now know a lot about Bloody Gully, including where it was.




The question still open to debate, is where was Bloody GULCH?

What further confused the issue all these years is that the 506th vets themselves never realized


that bloody gulch and bloody gully were two different locations. When they spoke of the


heavy fighting on 13 June, the men of 1st and 2nd Bn's always assumed they were talking


about the same place as the 3rd Bn guys.
They discussed the fighting at reunions as if they were


talking about the same place.
In fact they were not talking about the same places.




But it's easy to see how that happened, because they were both facing west, in areas SW of Carentan, fighting the same enemy (6th Para and 17th SS) on the
same day and I've heard 506th vets use the term 'Bloody Gulch' and 'Bloody Gully' interchangeably.


Ian Gardner realized that the gully must be a different place because all the 3rd Bn 506th guys he interviewed drew diagrams showing a
road on their right flank, while vets of the other Bns showed a rr track on their right
flank.




When Ronald Speirs did a monograph at the Infantry School circa 1947-48, he was still


in the Army and he chose to describe and illustrate the movements of his 2nd plt Dog Co 506th


on 13 June, 1944, and he drew three diagrams, to accompany his written narrative. He did


consult a map when doing this, but the trouble is, that the configuration of roads, fields and


hedgerows near the railroad overpass were somewhat duplicated by terrain features much


farther east,
in an area which is now obliterated by modern construction. Paul Woodage tends


to believe the the actual Bloody Gulch area no longer exists. Maybe Speirs mistakenly placed it


farther west than it actually was? This might have resulted from looking at a map several years


after the fact and seeing a similar area and confusing same with the actual area.




One reason is, that the road which goes under the RR overpass is shown to have a small dirt road,


branching-off on an angle toward a house, to the west in Speirs' drawings. Although there is such


a dirt track there today, there is no house where it should be, unless it was there and has since been


removed without a trace? The absence of the farmhouse shown in Speirs' diagram is what caused Paul W.


to start looking at possibilities farther east than the rr overpass' 2 track.




I can tell you that Steve Lee and Allen Bryson did some detecting and digging at the location near the


RR overpass several years ago. They found German cartridge casings along the two-track on the west


edge of the valley there. Also, along the parallel track on high ground (which is actually a driveway, leading


to a cluster of farm buildings), they found spent US cartridges. Jake Powers has Dick Winters' map overlay


for that day and he has told me that it shows Easy Co's MLR along that same residential driveway.


I will personally view the Winters overlay in person in the coming weeks. I'll let you know what it indicates.
Last edited by KlondikeFox on 14 Jun 2009, 03:45, edited 2 times in total.
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garethmk1
Registered User
Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 18:30

14 Jun 2009, 11:45 #9

Daniele C wrote:
ImageDo you mean the road that ends here...?



I visited that location on June 5th this year, just to inform you guys who are thinking of visiting IT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR MOST CARS, I took my 2008 Golf GTi
down his road and managed to ground it on the ruts in the road - not good, secondly the "turning around area" just after the bridge has 18 inch ruts
- I reversed up the road. I found spent US cartridges in the grass verges to the side of this road - there was definately some sort of engagement here. At the
end of the road under the bridge there were no itenerants. Just to assist you here is the area as per google earth, the exact area of the bridge, their
location in relation to Carentan and an image overview with another encounter map. You'll see that the battle map showing the railway line mirrors the
exact location of the railway line perfectly. The field shown 2nd down form the railway bridge is where alledgedly where Donald Burgett descirbes being wounded
during the battle. Hope it assists any of you,




ImageImage




Regards,




Gareth
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garethmk1
Registered User
Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 18:30

14 Jun 2009, 11:49 #10

Post to subscribe to topic sorry
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